Announcing the BSD Cafe chatmail server
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Dear friends of the BSD Cafe,
One of the principles this place was built on has always been free communication. Whether on the Fediverse or on Matrix, the goal is the same: open, secure, private, decentralized tools. Because we know, from experience, that anything centralized will sooner or later come to an end.
Matrix is great, and we like it. But it's tied to its server - you can't migrate away (easily). It does its job well, yet sometimes it asks for more than a conversation should: heavy to host, hard to leave.
So when my friend @outofcreativity@exquisite.social brought it up again at EuroBSDCon, I decided to give Delta Chat another try after many years. And yes - its philosophy fits mine, and the Cafe’s, well.For a few months we ran a relay - a chatmail server - but it was on Debian, and I didn't want to make an official service that runs on Debian. Not because it doesn't work: it works perfectly. But because it wouldn't be in the spirit of this place.
Thanks to @feld@friedcheese.us 's excellent cookbook recipe, I also kept a private relay of my own running for months, just to test it. It held up beautifully. So yesterday, with the help of some friends in the cookbook chat, I migrated the Debian server to FreeBSD - accounts and data included - and I can finally call it a stable, official Cafe service.
Our chatmail relay - https://chatmail.bsd.cafe - runs on FreeBSD, in a jail. Which means it gets everything the other services get: hourly backups via zfs send and receive, FreeBSD's security, and all the rest.
I'd encourage everyone to try Delta Chat. Secure, decentralized communication built on protocols we already know and trust: the ones behind email. And the development is moving fast. Multi-relay is no longer a promise - it's here, and it's solid: a single profile can use several relays at once, so your account and your reachability survive even if one of them goes down and disappears. That's real resilience. The real decentralization, the one we love.
Because Signal is great. But Signal, too, is centralized. And we happen to like the true spirit of the Internet.
@stefano @outofcreativity @feld This sounds great! Is there a way of signing in on my desktop without tying my phone to it?
Having to find my phone in order to scan a QR code to log in to a chat service seems like a bizarre login pattern to me.
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I'm lost.
In my confusion, I added Delta Chat to an iPad.
Still, when I click (in Firefox) to create my chatmail.bsd.cafe chat profile (with Delta Chat on Kubuntu), I'm prompted to do something, I don't know what.
I clicked on the QR code, now I have four relays, whatever they are (to be honest, I don't want to learn; I just want to chat without jumping through hoops).
@grahamperrin Try to paste this: dcaccount:https://chatmail.bsd.cafe/new
It should open the DeltaChat app and request for an account -
@stefano @outofcreativity @feld This sounds great! Is there a way of signing in on my desktop without tying my phone to it?
Having to find my phone in order to scan a QR code to log in to a chat service seems like a bizarre login pattern to me.
@thomrstrom@triangletoot.party Sure, just paste this into your browser: dcaccount:https://chatmail.bsd.cafe/new
It should open the DeltaChat app and start the new account creation procedure
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N nuintari@mastodon.bsd.cafe shared this topic
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@grahamperrin Try to paste this: dcaccount:https://chatmail.bsd.cafe/new
It should open the DeltaChat app and request for an account@stefano the dcaccount link works at https://chatmail.bsd.cafe/ but not here.
Should I ignore the Add Relay option?
Instead of adding a third relay, I guess I can delete one of the two existing relays that use chatmail.bsd.cafe. I'm fairly sure I reduced the list to one relay, earlier.
I have no idea where passwords are stored, or whether both relays use the same password.
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Maybe I misunderstand the essence of Delta Chat. From https://delta.chat/en/help#howtoe2ee:
For a remote contact setup, from the same screen, click “Copy” or “Share” and send the invite link through another private chat.
Erm, how can I have "another" private chat with someone who's not a contact, whose contact details I don't know?
https://support.delta.chat/search?q=remote contact was no help.
https://support.delta.chat/search?q=add contact was more promising:
– that seems quite different from the mental block that I have here.
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I am on, profiled, and connected and see nothing.
Great. Let's chat! Maybe we can both see nothing and say nothing
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@etrigan63 I accidentally created a second profile. It's gone now. Ha.
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@stefano the dcaccount link works at https://chatmail.bsd.cafe/ but not here.
Should I ignore the Add Relay option?
Instead of adding a third relay, I guess I can delete one of the two existing relays that use chatmail.bsd.cafe. I'm fairly sure I reduced the list to one relay, earlier.
I have no idea where passwords are stored, or whether both relays use the same password.
Did my screenshot inadvertently publish two sets of contact details that should be private?
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I am on, profiled, and connected and see nothing.
Great. Let's chat! Maybe we can both see nothing and say nothing
@grahamperrin How? This is clear as mud.
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@stefano @outofcreativity @feld This sounds great! Is there a way of signing in on my desktop without tying my phone to it?
Having to find my phone in order to scan a QR code to log in to a chat service seems like a bizarre login pattern to me.
@thomrstrom @stefano @outofcreativity QR code is really just a link that resolves to this:
dcaccount:https://chatmail.bsd.cafe/new
but you can install the app and then that link when you click it should work
also there's an invite link directly into the group which has a slightly nicer flow but doesn't guarantee your initial account setup was on the BSD Cafe chatmail server (but you can add many "relays" to your account without disruption or anyone noticing, so you can add BSD Cafe's chatmail afterwards):
https://i.delta.chat/#2308C221F5B7403CE990C06F240C7E0EA369B0D5&v=3&x=EI1r5PyAqMQO5EnXZgmzkm7k&i=F-9eJjNgo0JHk0b-6gmjhfiN&s=jGYWGYzAZ5FavSbQt4wr4Dcy&a=x2lfrbwxg%40chat.feld.me&n=Mark&g=BSD+Cafe+Lounge -
Maybe I misunderstand the essence of Delta Chat. From https://delta.chat/en/help#howtoe2ee:
For a remote contact setup, from the same screen, click “Copy” or “Share” and send the invite link through another private chat.
Erm, how can I have "another" private chat with someone who's not a contact, whose contact details I don't know?
https://support.delta.chat/search?q=remote contact was no help.
https://support.delta.chat/search?q=add contact was more promising:
– that seems quite different from the mental block that I have here.
@grahamperrin I think reading the faq could help. This is a little different from the other messaging apps - and it's better, I'd say.
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So far, we are all going to be wandering around aimlessly until someone decides to take the step of throwing their QR code out tot winds and see who responds. Maybe someone here should make a chat group that represents this organization. Having our own server does not appear to be enough.
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@grahamperrin I think reading the faq could help. This is a little different from the other messaging apps - and it's better, I'd say.
@stefano thanks, I already read the faq, linked and quoted at https://billboard.bsd.cafe/post/614 above where I'm falling at the first hurdle:
- How can I find people to chat with?
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@stefano thanks, I already read the faq, linked and quoted at https://billboard.bsd.cafe/post/614 above where I'm falling at the first hurdle:
- How can I find people to chat with?
@grahamperrin Just send me a message here:
https://i.delta.chat/#35785273EDA8016AC3F52535A476DDD42385EECC&i=U1cPHyyzkkxJiwPE4P2r7je2&s=tzXnLPG9aT6e5nW6xtbdk0JQ&a=cttf6p58k%40chatmail.bsd.cafe&n=Stefano+Marinelli - first contact
Deltachat is, for now, similar to Signal's concept, not like Matrix. It's more oriented towards a one to one communication than a "one to many". That's why there's the concept of qr code or link: the idea is that you can exchange your link with the people you want to.
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So far, we are all going to be wandering around aimlessly until someone decides to take the step of throwing their QR code out tot winds and see who responds. Maybe someone here should make a chat group that represents this organization. Having our own server does not appear to be enough.
@etrigan63 Deltachat is, for now, similar to Signal's concept, not like Matrix. It's more oriented towards a one to one communication than a "one to many". That's why there's the concept of qr code or link: the idea is that you can exchange your link with the people you want to.
Send me a message: https://i.delta.chat/#35785273EDA8016AC3F52535A476DDD42385EECC&i=U1cPHyyzkkxJiwPE4P2r7je2&s=tzXnLPG9aT6e5nW6xtbdk0JQ&a=cttf6p58k%40chatmail.bsd.cafe&n=Stefano+Marinelli
I'll point to some groups. Consider that the users in the groups are all admins (it's not meant for public chats, but more for group chats) so I'd prefer not to disclose them here.
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@etrigan63 Deltachat is, for now, similar to Signal's concept, not like Matrix. It's more oriented towards a one to one communication than a "one to many". That's why there's the concept of qr code or link: the idea is that you can exchange your link with the people you want to.
Send me a message: https://i.delta.chat/#35785273EDA8016AC3F52535A476DDD42385EECC&i=U1cPHyyzkkxJiwPE4P2r7je2&s=tzXnLPG9aT6e5nW6xtbdk0JQ&a=cttf6p58k%40chatmail.bsd.cafe&n=Stefano+Marinelli
I'll point to some groups. Consider that the users in the groups are all admins (it's not meant for public chats, but more for group chats) so I'd prefer not to disclose them here.
… the idea is that you can exchange your link with the people you want to. …
There's the plain English that's missing from official answers to frequently asked questions.
IMHO an app should be intuitive from the outset, without needing to leave the app to gain help.
I can see why people like Delta Chat, however (sorry) I'd never recommend it to a friend.
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… the idea is that you can exchange your link with the people you want to. …
There's the plain English that's missing from official answers to frequently asked questions.
IMHO an app should be intuitive from the outset, without needing to leave the app to gain help.
I can see why people like Delta Chat, however (sorry) I'd never recommend it to a friend.
@grahamperrin I totally understand your point of view. Maybe this can be improved.
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@etrigan63 Deltachat is, for now, similar to Signal's concept, not like Matrix. It's more oriented towards a one to one communication than a "one to many". That's why there's the concept of qr code or link: the idea is that you can exchange your link with the people you want to.
Send me a message: https://i.delta.chat/#35785273EDA8016AC3F52535A476DDD42385EECC&i=U1cPHyyzkkxJiwPE4P2r7je2&s=tzXnLPG9aT6e5nW6xtbdk0JQ&a=cttf6p58k%40chatmail.bsd.cafe&n=Stefano+Marinelli
I'll point to some groups. Consider that the users in the groups are all admins (it's not meant for public chats, but more for group chats) so I'd prefer not to disclose them here.
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